Artist Interviews – Part 17 SONOKO’s Talk Tape

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*If you want to read the Japanese version and click here.

Crammed Discs is an indie label ON a par with Crepuscule, located in Brussels and Belgium and established in n/a The label owner is Marc Hollander. He did Kamikaze Project (that later became Akasak Maboul) with Mark Mulan who was part of Telex and he was also a member of Honeymoon Killers. The label is divided into sub-labels; Crammed Today for multinational pop, Made To Measure for ambient music and soundtracks and Cramboy for Tuxedomoon. Though many indie labels who make good music have been having financial difficulties, Crammed and its associated labels seem to be doing very well focusing on world music and techno.

They’re now re-issuing their 80′s Crammed releases. 12 re-issues of original albums and then 2 sets of compilations, and a limited edition boxset .

the CD sleeve is linked to hmv.co.jp (also available at amazon.fr)..
Crammed Global Soundclash – Vol.1: World Fusion

Crammed Global Soundclash – Vol.2: ElectroWave

The original album re-issues contain the everlasting masterpiece “La Debutante” by SONOKO who appears in this interview. Colin Newman, a producer, commented “It is pure and special music.” Although it is not an album which many people know because it was too ahead of its time, it is a work I want many more people to listen to. Now let her tell the tale about the “talk tape” which she sent as a demo and made her debut possible on Crammed.

SONOKO
CRAMMED DISCS — Before your debut on Crammed, I understand your activity was centered around Kyoto. I have an impression that the scene in Kyoto at that time was edgy such as EP-4. What connections did you have?

I started doing music in public around 1980, and my first unit was “Intron”. After doing some gigs and participating in the double-disk compilation album “Awa (Bubble)” which assembled avant-garde artists (Noizunzuri, Mertbaw, etc.) like Intron, I began solo activity as SONOKO. Around that time I had some gigs with Ryuichi Sakamoto, Hajime Tachibana, Guernica, etc

I think that Kyoto was at the center of the Japanese experimental avant-garde art or alternative scene. Various bands such as EP-4, Noizunzuri, Amaryllis, Smash Hits, Children Coup d’etat, Hanatarashi (later Boredoms), 4D, After Dinner and Shonen Knife and etc., were part of this scene. I often had gigs together with Alice Sailor of Amaryllis and she was also my friend. I worked together with her in Gardenia Angels (girl chorus band who sang medieval music and such as Palestrina and Gregorian hymns).

Alice Sailor and I planned events such as “Christmas calling” where both the performers and the visitors brought Christmas presents to exchange and “Girl’s Festival event” where the girl band “Lolita Syndrome” appeared while presenting the French movie (“Ascenseur pour l’echafaud”). One of the most pleasant events was for a gallery called Kitano Circus in Kobe. We all played in an old church, alternative bands and Gardenia Angels for myself. Everyday was like a moveable feast.

— Although you participated in the Japanese omnibus albums, why did you suddenly decide to come out on an overseas label?

Though I was part of the latest avant-garde music in Japan, I didn’t feel that at home in the underground and avant-garde atmosphere here.

I thought that my music had more things in common with the world created by the artists on the European labels such as Crepuscule, Cherry Red, Crammed somewhat similar to my favorite French movies, the aesthetic world of surrealism literature and art. I was not too conscious about spreading my sphere of activity abroad. I did not choose them because they are overseas labels. It was simply because they were more in line with my music. It was very natural for me like choosing a frame to fit my painting.

— You sent a demo tape to Cherry Red, Crepuscule and Crammed in 1984. What kind of tape was it?

The very first demo was a quite avant-garde thing that I created by mixing the sounds from two radio cassette recorders during my spring vacation. It basically recorded my talking and songs, and used acoustic musical instruments such as music boxes, toy musical instruments, Kalimba, bell, hand bell, metalphone and violin based on the piano and even my elder sister’s electronic organ. It was my first demo tape as SONOKO and it was a very exciting experience

It crystallized my favorite dreams: a mermaid, an angel and a fairy tale and whisper of fairy, a child’s cruelty and eternal time, and Romeo & Juliet. The monologue idea I took from Margurite Duras. The reading with music of the story “La debutante” by Leonora Carrington was an idea from the beginning and also became the album title “La Debutante.”

It is close to the “talk tapes” for children to listen to before they go to sleep and that have “music and talk”. The narration is part of the music like Claude Debussy’s “Pavane Pavane For A Dead Princess”, Gerard Philippe’s reading of “Little Prince”, David Bowie’s “Peter and Wolf” and Margurite Duras’s “India Song”, — Though you eventually made your debut with Crammed, what was the reaction from each label?

After sending the demo, Cherry Red contacted me immediately. It was a rather personal letter, in a way a quasi-fan letter, telling me that they really liked it, they listened to it repeatedly and they asked me to drop by Cherry Red if I visited London.

There was no reaction from Crammed initially. When Honeymoon Killers visited Japan, I approached them again. Though Marc Hollander had listened to my demo, it seems that he didn’t really get interested until I actually met him.

There was no contact from my favorite, that was Crepuscule.

I personally think that just getting reactions from two of the three labels is a success story. In the end I’ve been very fortunate. It turned out to be Crammed that did my record, and it’s all turned out for the best.

— What attracted you to these three labels?

Just an intuition or instinct, all three labels had the kind of esprit (soul) which I liked, and expressed it in the music they were putting out then.

A lot of people say that “La Debutante” is a “jewel box” which has an uncanny unification though various genres are condensed in it. I wanted to make a spiritual (soul) world after what I feel as beautiful, things so pure as to be beyond shame, sublimated to beautiful music. Since it was so personal, I felt that it might be hard to be understood. But at the same time, I thought that some people who felt the same way (those who remember their child’s heart even as an adult) would absolutely understand it

Although what I created has taken the form of music and it does not consist of only music. Colin Newman said “it’s highly post-modern and one art rather than eclecticism”. According to Liberation and the best paper of musical criticism in France at that time, “Destined to become an underground classic from the late ’80s.” If I got such compliments and I suppose that is the reason.

People in Crammed Discs accepted my feeling with sincerity and made it into a beautiful album. I’m truly thankful.

— Once the project to make a record crystallized and how long did it take till the actual release?

After I was actually contacted by Cherry Red, it took about four years to complete the album.

— An album that was first manufactured in Japan was never released and you did a completely new recording in Belgium. How did the contents change? It seems like there were many complications to get there.

The initial plan was a record released on Cherry Red with Mr. Kaoru Sato as producer. We recorded in studios in Kyoto and Tokyo. I played together with Morgan Fischer on stage in Kyoto, and we recorded after that in the studio in Tokyo.

About the time we started to realize that Cherry Red’s ideas and what we (Mr. Sato and I) were doing here were a bit different, Honeymoon Killers visited Japan. I transferred to Crammed because when we met there seemed to be total agreement about what direction the album should take.

Though Crammed’s initial idea was to release what Mr. Sato and I had recorded in Japan, Marc was not totally satisfied with the result and things stalled there for a long time. When I went to Paris to take a summer course at the Sorbonne about a year later, I went to Crammed with the master tape from Tokyo to negotiate directly. Marc said “it is not enough, and you need to record it again here”. I started again from scratch. It was like a never-ending story. — The album “La Debutante” n/a is jointly produced by Colin Newman of Wire, and Akasak Maboul (Marc Hollander and Vansun Kenneth). How did these two producers with different characteristics affect the album?

Although the project started as Colin Newman’s production, after hearing the last mix-down of all songs we’d recorded, there was something missing from the world which I wanted to make

French culture is special and peculiar. It is a culture where the mood of “ennui” and a certain kind of sexiness is charming. It is probably not easy for someone to internalize these characteristics of French culture unless they are already French or are French culture lovers. Sexual and fawning things such as “famme-enfant” and “whisper voice like a fairy” may not have been regarded as appropriate by Colin who is British. Although I had no special aim to become that kind of singer and I thought that in essence it was also a part of me and one of the charms of SONOKO’s music.

When I talked with Marc, he seemed to have the same opinion (Marc is a Belgium which belongs to the French cultural sphere). So, we decided to record the vocal part again and redo the remixes for several tracks such as “Une histoire de plage”, “La Poupee Qui Fait Non” and “Cheri Cheri”. At this point, the actual work was done with the Vincent Kenis.

Of course the fundamental work was done by Colin, but it was also very good for us to be able to go further and create a more delicate and deeper work in the end with joint production with Akasak Maboul. On the other hand, redoing several tracks was hard on me since I had to stay longer in Brussels (It became a long-term stay although I had come to Europe with the intention of traveling. It was my first overseas trip by myself). I also think that it was a burden for Crammed who had to put in more time and money.

But when the album was completed, Marc said “This is one of the most beautiful albums on Crammed Discs.”, and everybody seemed very pleased with it. Marc is still saying it’s one of his favorite albums. I think that my feeling’s as an artist respected because Marc Hollander, the owner of Crammed Discs, was a musician. In spite of all the difficulties, I was happy that my wish had finally been realized.

— Is the woman like a Japanese doll in the album cover actually you? There is a cassette tape on the cover. Is it a “talk tape”?

Although a lot of people said that that album cover was created by CG, in fact and it is actually me (The picture of proof shown). It is quite strange for me to hear all the stories when nothing at all was done to the photo and but it is often said that this cover art creates a mysterious atmosphere which takes the record out of the real world.

I think the cassette ON the cover is the 2nd or the 3rd demo tape (not the first I sent). It was a pink cassette tape and I always put an angel design. The design of the cassette may have attracted people’s attention. I think that such a style of presentation has been understood as one of my characteristics. — The 1st track of Heaven side of the album is “Balcony Scene” in the narrative style tone which begins with a music box. Was the “talk tape” the prototype of this track?

Yes. It went into the demo tape made at the very beginning.

“Balcony Scene is the music made by chance. My elder sister had a music box when I was looking around the house for the musical instruments I could use, and I borrowed it. If I hadn’t found that music box, the cut would never have been the same. I talked Juliet’s words according to the music box just with playing mind. Falling in love with love. A world that can be understood absolutely sensually and physically by girls. A very beautiful (grotesque in a certain way) and narcissistic world. When such things are seen or heard, people may feel like peeping. It seems to be divided into two types; those who feel uncomfortable and those who dive into the world completely when they hear “La Debutante”. People say that it is the kind of music you either love or you hate.

— The 3rd track “Souvenir de la Mer” in Heaven side is my favorite among the SONOKO original tracks. You collaborated with a boy called MARTO. Who is MARTO? And how did you collaborate with him?

MARTO is a boy guitarist from Osaka who was 17 years old at that time. He was selling indie cassette tapes of guitar tracks like Lawrence of Felt and Durutti Column in the import record stores. His artist name was taken from the name of the girl who appeared ON Radiguet’s “Le diable au corps”. When I was looking for the composer for the original music of Gardenia Angles made and I liked what he did and asked him to make several music tracks.

“Souvenir de la Mer” and “Wedding With God” for Nijinsky are originally from guitar tracks which he had previously made rather than the ones I asked him for, and I sang lyrics with melodies. “Souvenir de la Mer” was arranged by Vinent Kinis and Aligue in the band called Family Fodder. It’s got a pop touch and Marc was pleased to say it’s like early Gainsbourg. As for “Wedding With God”, Vincent Kenis played the guitar. I liked it very much. The original was a guitar track with an intimate touch which had an introverted (in a good way) and closed atmosphere peculiar to indies sound.

— The single “La poupee qui fait non” n/a which covered Michelle Pornaleff’s song that was released after the album seems more like an idol product compared to the album, in both arrangement and cover art. Was that your intention?

Although Crammed is an indie label, it is a label that has learned the good lessons to be learned from the majors. Their intention was to put me into the market as a new singer. However, I was not used to the whole idea of being a star, and it was a bit uncomfortable.
— You sang Brigitte Bardot’s “Une Histoire de Plage” (this cover is also superb!) in the last Mad French live. Have you like French Pops such as Brigitte Bardot for a long time?

It’s more that I am attracted to music made by actresses who try to sing rather than French Pops. I like the atmosphere when an actress sings. I like a style of singing like talking and of course whispering

As Marlaine Dietrich who was the first actress who sang, other examples are Marilyn Monroe and Charlotte Rampling’s “The Night Porter” and Jeanne Moreau as well. Catherine Deneuve’s voice is also cute, Marianne Faithful who appears in “Anna” just a bit and Isabella Rossellini of “Blue Velvet.” Anna Karina of “Pierrot le feu”… “Actress’ singing” is very French-touch. Laetitia Casta in “Rue des Plaisirs” which I saw recently was also good.

— My own impression is that you made a wonderful record, where French, Post Punk, hymns and the aesthetic world of dreaming girls all live together splendidly. The cover of Suicides’ “Cheri Cheri” for which Colin Newman described you as “a genius of covers” is the world reconstructed by SONOKO completely? Why did you cover this song?

If “La Debutante” was a collection where I brought only favorite tracks together, this was one of my favorite tracks. I sensed that I could sing Suicides’ “Cheri Cheri” like a sweet and perfect love song just like Marilyn Monroe when she sang it in the movie where I heard it for the first time.

I feel that Kenneth Anger’s movie expressed the aestheticism of the mismatch created by the fusion of a very stiff thing and a very sweet thing. It is clear that this music is fascinating to cult fans although I don’t know whether it is the best thing on the album compared to the other tracks.

— I first heard about SONOKO on the omnibus album “It’s A Crammed, Crammed World!” n/a Did you have any connection with other artists on Crammed other than the producers?

Since I was concentrating on recording while I was staying in Brussels, I didn’t have any time to play with other musicians.

Belgium in those days was widely recognized as a center for music. Therefore, musicians gathered there naturally from various countries and a stateless atmosphere was created. Naturally, I got to know various artists.

Marc and Veronique (Honeymoon Killer’s vocalist) took good care of me. I lived in a 3-story apartment building where Sammy of Minimal Compact (now active as DJ MORPHES) and others lived. Marca of Minimal Compact, Colin’s wife, gave me a cute bag and a dear angel before I worked together with Colin

I was called the “Enfant Gate” (spoiled child) by the Crammed people but I was loved very much. Although it may not be a compliment and French culture allows a fault to be seen as a charm. — Although overseas releases and activities by Japanese artists are not rare today and did you have any trouble in Europe where the structure of things is vaguer and where you had to work alone?

The most effective method of music promotion an overseas is tour. It was difficult for an artist like me who has little live experience and makes a kind of music that is difficult to reproduce ON stage. I never really want to be an entertainer. But I regret that I didn’t have a tour.

— Based on your experience in Europe, do you have any advice for artists who want to work overseas?

I think it the most important thing is what you want to express. Then you’ve got to know your reasons for wanting to work overseas. In order to create appeal or help people to understand what you want, you should know exactly what you are thinking (which Japanese people are weak at). I also think that it is a must to have a good enough level in the foreign language to convey your thoughts.

— After a long silence, you recently contributed a cover of Brigitte Bardot’s “La Madrague” to “Les Copains de Mad French” CD on the Mad French label. What triggered you to do this?

For a long time I sealed myself off and stopped music altogether. I felt badly about having lost the courage to continue my music. I felt like someone who has lost her memory and is living someone else’s life. Soon after I came back from Paris to Japan, I happened to meet some people who liked my music and I was moved. Since I didn’t have any idea that “La Debutante” could be loved this much, I was really glad. It was encouraged to know that even though I’d been silent, they were fans and still kept “La Debutante” like a treasure

Victore Elise, one of my favorite movie directors, the one who filmed the movie “Spirit of the Beehive” and “El Sur” and makes a movie once every 10 years. Kenneth Anger has also spent many years producing one work. I’m not looking to produce a great quantity of works, but if I can just put out good work, even a single masterpiece and I’d be satisfied. It is my greatest joy as a creator to know that the album I made is treasured.

(Thanks for cooperating for the long interviews.)